Flock cameras are currently used by more than 50 law enforcement organizations in Oklahoma, said Trevor Chandler, director of public affairs for Flock. These include the Cleveland County Sheriff’s Office, Oklahoma City Police Department, Moore Police Department, Purcell Police Department, and Del City Police Department.
Flock has cameras leased out to law enforcement nationwide. Chandler said that across the nation Flock cameras are credited as helping solve 2,200 crimes per week. That number, he said, is 10% of all crimes solved in the U.S.
Councilmember Helen Grant raised several concerns of how cameras could be used to hurt people instead of solve crimes, asking in what ways the camera system could be hijacked by those with ill intentions.
Mayor Stephen Tyler Holman said that he has heard about improper parsing through data.
“There is a case in Houston where I’m hearing about where there was reports of many officers searching through the system lacking proper jurisdiction, justification, response. Flock made an update requiring officers select a purpose in searching,” Holman said.
Grant challenged the efficacy of a self-reported survey.
“Not hard to imagine somebody making up a reason to track someone down and then calling law enforcement on them, happens all the time,” Grant said.
“Not in Norman,” said Councilmember Scott Dixon.
“Oh, never in Norman,” Grant said, recalling an issue where law enforcement were called to a gas station in Norman where they were told someone was “acting dangerously” but that turned out to be a false situation, they said.
Deputy Chief Ricky Jackson said the culture at NPD is to protect the community, but acknowledged that abuse of systems does happen.
“You don’t see us in the news, abusing people every day or anything like that. Violating people’s rights. It’s a culture we have here, you know, to protect people in our community. So these things could happen. Think about these things to kind of mitigate for moving forward,” Jackson said.
The Flock audit system shows every time someone looks for a license plate. The system asks for information when users access Flock, logging the name, the time, and the reason or case number.
If users decide to share their data with other cities, Chandler said, they can customize where they want to share down to a mile-by-mile basis. If the data is shared, the agency also receives an audit of how their data is being searched in another city.
The cameras do not run the plates for insurance and registration, Jackson said. They only capture the cars driving by.
ODOT has recently asked cities to remove License Plate Reading cameras, with the reasoning that capturing insurance information is fine but collecting evidence of crimes is not.
The Pryor Police Department had two cameras set up on ODOT-maintained roads, which they fought to keep because the department said they helped solve crime. Chandler’s presentation included a 2023 example from Pryor in which the police found a suspect involved in indecent exposure at a high school by using Flock.
Oklahoma Representative Tom Gann also told KFOR last week that the cameras have too much legal gray area with how they can be used.
Chandler said that the cameras just collect evidence, they do not convict.
Grant asked if data gathered by cameras in Norman could be used by ICE. They asked if the data could be used by other agencies to track people obtaining abortions — even keeping a record of travel to other states where they are legal.
Holman called it a valid concern as states like Texas have tried to pass “bounty hunter laws.”
“It is a real concern,” Holman said.
Jackson said that seeking out people’s legal status is “beyond the scope” of what NPD does. He also said that abortions were medical, and as such, out of NPD’s jurisdiction.
“Our policy specifically prohibits the use of Flock tag info for anything other than public safety issues,” Jackson said. “When it comes to medical stuff that’s totally outside the scope of what we do as law enforcement … We don’t work for ICE,” he said.
Jackson said the department’s core value is protecting the vulnerable.
“Is Flock working with ICE?” Grant asked.
Chandler said Flock does not work with ICE and that individual police departments decide which agencies they share data with. Those agencies could include ICE, but it would be at the discretion of the department.
Later, Grant posted on Facebook that they were working with City Staff to find a way to “confirm and post incidents that were not NPD to have full transparency which agency was operating in Norman.”
“Maybe we can have some clarity on the City’s position regarding ICE actions and if it runs counter to the work being done by NPD. To my knowledge, and this has been true for years, being at odds with immigrant communities is not super productive for NPD,” Grant wrote.
Chandler said the cameras can help find missing people, including those who have been kidnapped or elderly people with dementia.
“We can also put in our own 24/7 coverage, real time alerts from the National Crime Information Center at the NCMEC, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children,” Chandler said. “They find thousands of missing children every year, and they have touted and fully endorsed Flock LPR cameras as a pivotal part of the strategy to reunite missing children,” he said.
Council members asked how the data is stored, whether it is shared, and if there is AI in Flock’s system.
Chandler said that data is stored securely with end-to-end encryption and automatically deleted after a period of time that the law enforcement agency selects. Most agencies choose to store the data for 30 days. He said Flock does not sell the data.
Jackson said NPD only wants the license plate readers.
“That’s all we need. We don’t need anything else. We don’t need any AI generated anything,” Jackson said.
Chandler said that different levels of AI software are available, but that they cost extra. He emphasized that local governments can create policies to guide how the cameras are used.
The base-level cameras are equipped with machine learning, Chandler said, which helps with accuracy in reading plates. According to the presentation, the cameras do not include facial recognition software.
They are not speed cameras, or red light cameras, Chandler said.
The price per camera is $3,500 per year. The cameras are leased through an annual subscription that includes lifetime hardware and software upgrades.
Flock is not mass surveillance, he said, but “precision policing.”
“It allows for precision policing. Instead of looking for every white SUV, you are looking for the white SUV. You are stopping unnecessary police stops that can result in negative police citizen interaction by focusing only on vehicles that are associated with crimes,” Chandler said.
Holman asked if it needed to scan every vehicle that crosses its path.
Chandler said yes, every plate is scanned and held.
“These cameras do not establish guilt, but they establish a key piece of actionable, objective evidence that your officers can use to follow up on a crime,” Chandler said.
The data would not be owned by Flock. It would be owned by the camera user, Chandler said.
City Attorney Rick Knighton said that since Flock cameras are fixed points, they would probably not have any fourth amendment violations as something like attaching a GPS to a car would.
“However, that only applies to license plate readers,” Knighton said. Other uses of the cameras may not have the same legal outcome.
Holman said there is talk about cameras being installed in several states without necessary permits or licenses, which he said is leading to cease and desist letters and moratoriums in multiple states including Texas.
Grant asked if Flock had ever had a data breach.
Chandler said no.
“No, we have not had a breach, and we’re continually working and innovating to make sure that stays the case,” Chandler said. He also stated they would be contractually obligated to notify the user if there was ever a breach.
Chandler said Flock is best used with a strong policy.
City Manager Darrel Pyle gave his opinion.
“Naughty people do naughty things,” Pyle said. “I just kind of think we all recognize there are cameras everywhere, everywhere all the time. Somebody’s got a camera. Everything you do is going to wind up on Facebook, for Pete’s sake, and that same cell phone data winds up on the channel five news,” Pyle said.
Chandler also referenced statistics that only about half of murders are solved in the U.S.
According to FBI statistics analyzed by the Murder Accountability Project, in 2021, only 51% of homicides were solved. However, Norman fares a bit better.
In 2020, statistics self-reported by Norman PD stated that 60% of murders were solved over a 5 year period.
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